Post by LDM on Jan 4, 2010 13:15:18 GMT -5
We also received the following comments:
"I would like for whoever did this video series to show me how Joyce Meyers is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Ive watched her and read her books and never felt the need to run around and jump because she said so, and cant recall her ever doing that when she speaks...But like others have mentioned, I will need to see why Joyce is considered to be a wolf in sheeps clothing. Just because she is on tv doesn't make her a false prophet."
While I cannot state why the creator of the Priestcraft videos included Joyce in her depiction of false ministers, we can review what Joyce teaches.
First, I have to say that being on tv has no bearing on whether one is preaching sound doctrine or not. This is not about tv, radio, book sales, or any other sign of popularity in the world. Such a thing is insignificant in terms of the things of God.
Second, the manifestation of error is not simply in emotionalism. It is putting forth doctrines that are patently unBiblical. I used to follow Joyce Meyer as well and can confirm that she never inspired me to go jumping and running around the room at her command.
However, let's look at what Joyce teaches. As I stated before, I too was someone who followed Joyce's ministry when I first became a Christian. I can credit several of her messages with helping to mature me in the faith.
The thing to keep in mind, however, is that just because one starts out sound in the faith does not mean one has to continue that way. Such is true for ministers as well as believers in general.
See that she reverence her husband
Before getting to her doctrine, there is something I would like to mention as a personal observation. One thing that I have always felt uneasy about with Joyce is the way she speaks of her husband, Dave. It seems, even way back then, that she spoke of/to him as one might reference an errand boy. Even though many of these comments were in jest, it seemed disrespectful and derogatory. This is at odds with how Scripture says a woman is to reverence her husband. I had to ask myself, "Is a woman who publicly degrades her husband (head) really being called by God to teach?" Again, this part is simply my own observation.
Word Faith Errors
Prosperity Foolishness
Meyer teaches that faith in God translates into a payday from God. While she tries to distance herself from being associated as a "prosperity teacher" she does not come out against such deceptions and more importantly, her teaching employs a number of the same concepts seen in that doctrine.
We don't "grow up" or mature in the faith because we want to receive "every earthly blessing." That is selfishness. Joyce says, "When your character is affected, your pocketbook will automatically affected." Yet, God says, "Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself." (I Timothy 6:5)
freecdtracts.com/comps/carter_conlin_vs_joyce_meyer.mp3
Before listening to the video, I will admit that I hate some of the background music in the above clip, but I think the message is relevant.
God wants you to drive a nice car and have the best that the "world" has to offer? NO! God says ALL that is in the world is "the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life." Such is NOT of the Father the Scriptures say. God wants you to have the best of what HE has to offer, not the best of what the world has to offer. He tells us repeatedly that the world can offer us nothing of value (Matthew 16:26).
This failure in understanding is exactly what kept the "stiffnecked" Israelites wandering in the wilderness. They lusted after the things of Egypt and had assumed that being delivered by God would equate to receiving all the material riches of the Egyptians. Their constant complaint and expectation from God was to have the worldly things that the Egyptians had.
Let me be clear, it is God's good pleasure to bless us as HE sees fit, but a lifestyle of material riches and abundance is not a guarantee in God, nor is it the epitome of what God wants for us.
I Deserve to Live Richly
In conjunction with this false doctrine, we see the same over-extravagances in the Meyer's lifestyle as other so-called prosperity preachers. The level to which her ministry funnels money directly into her family's personal finances has been a point of contention with the government in recent years leading to specific court battles over their non-profit status. Information about these monies and the findings of investigations in this area can be found by searching the Internet.
I am NOT saying that ministers should be paupers or that they have no right to be compensated. But there is a point where the lifestyle can become so worldly that it contradicts the message of having a life laid down in service. At such a point, the "servant" becomes those financing this lifestyle via their donations rather than the minister himself being the life poured out as a "servant". When the work of the "ministry" (including the funds derived from and donated to it) becomes a funnel for personal gain, this is an issue of greed. ministrywatch.com/mw2.1/pdf/MWDA_060605_JoyceMeyer.pdf
Words are "power"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yypjWlsayHw
Another tenet of the word of faith movement is that you speak to life your own reality by the power of your words. However, God says that if our motives or requests do not line up with His will, our requests will not be granted (James 4:3). Does God just grant what we speak and claim or are we commanded to speak what He desires?
Jesus Taking Our Place in Hell
www.pinpointevangelism.com/FalseTeacher/Audio/JoyceMeyer-FranSankey.mp3
The Scriptures indicate that Jesus went to Hell to set the captive souls free, but there is no Scriptural support for believing that He was tortured by demons as some sort of substitute for the punishment of Hell owed to us. This experience - she says - qualifies Jesus as the "first born-again" child of God. Joyce also teaches this as a belief required for salvation. It is a deceptive teaching with no Scriptural basis promoted by those such as Hagin and Copeland.
We are "little gods"
www.pinpointevangelism.com/FalseTeacher/Audio/JoyceMeyerMix.mp3
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y4eVu2oxP8
This is a popular teaching in the Word of Faith movement that is perverted to imply that man (in his born again state) becomes the equivalent of God, able to speak forth his own reality.
Although Joyce claims not to be equating man with being "G"od, she essentially does just that with her teaching. She states that man becomes the "God-kind" in the new birth. She compares Jesus' statement about being the Son of God with us being made sons and daughters of God via the new birth. However, we are not begotten by God the way that Jesus is, making our very nature God's nature. We are born again by God's Spirit but we are made sons via adoption.
Evil Communications Corrupt Good Manners
A little leaven leavens the WHOLE lump. Yet, we see Joyce able to blend seamlessly with those who are espousing false doctrines and heresies in the Body of Christ. How can two walk together unless they be agreed?
The Mega Mess
Joyce Meyer participated in the 2004 Mega Mess (oops, I mean Mega Fest) which is one of the most worldly, compromising, perverted attempts at Christian convocation in many years. It is literally a parade of the flesh and she held positions in this fiasco along the sides of others such as Creflo Dollar, Paula White, Juanita Bynum, Bishop Eddie Long, and Bishop T. D. Jakes.
TBN
Frankly, I am personally predisposed to write-off anyone who continuously appears on TBN. It is not a vehicle for the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, but is a champion of the whore of Babylon. They only feature on TBN those who do not threaten their money-making machine. Examine the doctrine of those who TBN supports and ask yourself, "Why are they supporting Joyce? More importantly, why is Joyce affiliating herself with such organizations?"
UnScriptural "Spiritual" Manifestations
Holy Laughter
Again, here was have another Word of Faith, Copeland, Hagin perversion that has no Scriptural support. While I have not personally heard Joyce condoning holy laughter, an article about such is located here: www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/special/joycemeyer.nsf/story/F50ADCD5BDFEA78086256DE100245318?OpenDocument
Lastly, let me say, Joyce is folksy, personable, humorous, charismatic...she is a very likable person. Yet NONE of that has anything to do with whether what she is teaching is Scripturally sound. We are not to judge things after the flesh, but by the spirit. Are "good words" enough to sign-off on one as a minister of the Gospel? This is not about Joyce as a person; it is about what is being taught.
Again, there is some truth in what Joyce says, however she has really started straddling the fence in key areas as she delves more and more into the WoF community. She tries not to be identified by the Word of Faith deception, yet she parrots much of the phraseology, concepts, jargon, and doctrines they promote.
"I would like for whoever did this video series to show me how Joyce Meyers is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Ive watched her and read her books and never felt the need to run around and jump because she said so, and cant recall her ever doing that when she speaks...But like others have mentioned, I will need to see why Joyce is considered to be a wolf in sheeps clothing. Just because she is on tv doesn't make her a false prophet."
While I cannot state why the creator of the Priestcraft videos included Joyce in her depiction of false ministers, we can review what Joyce teaches.
First, I have to say that being on tv has no bearing on whether one is preaching sound doctrine or not. This is not about tv, radio, book sales, or any other sign of popularity in the world. Such a thing is insignificant in terms of the things of God.
Second, the manifestation of error is not simply in emotionalism. It is putting forth doctrines that are patently unBiblical. I used to follow Joyce Meyer as well and can confirm that she never inspired me to go jumping and running around the room at her command.
However, let's look at what Joyce teaches. As I stated before, I too was someone who followed Joyce's ministry when I first became a Christian. I can credit several of her messages with helping to mature me in the faith.
The thing to keep in mind, however, is that just because one starts out sound in the faith does not mean one has to continue that way. Such is true for ministers as well as believers in general.
See that she reverence her husband
Before getting to her doctrine, there is something I would like to mention as a personal observation. One thing that I have always felt uneasy about with Joyce is the way she speaks of her husband, Dave. It seems, even way back then, that she spoke of/to him as one might reference an errand boy. Even though many of these comments were in jest, it seemed disrespectful and derogatory. This is at odds with how Scripture says a woman is to reverence her husband. I had to ask myself, "Is a woman who publicly degrades her husband (head) really being called by God to teach?" Again, this part is simply my own observation.
Word Faith Errors
Prosperity Foolishness
Meyer teaches that faith in God translates into a payday from God. While she tries to distance herself from being associated as a "prosperity teacher" she does not come out against such deceptions and more importantly, her teaching employs a number of the same concepts seen in that doctrine.
We don't "grow up" or mature in the faith because we want to receive "every earthly blessing." That is selfishness. Joyce says, "When your character is affected, your pocketbook will automatically affected." Yet, God says, "Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself." (I Timothy 6:5)
freecdtracts.com/comps/carter_conlin_vs_joyce_meyer.mp3
Before listening to the video, I will admit that I hate some of the background music in the above clip, but I think the message is relevant.
God wants you to drive a nice car and have the best that the "world" has to offer? NO! God says ALL that is in the world is "the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life." Such is NOT of the Father the Scriptures say. God wants you to have the best of what HE has to offer, not the best of what the world has to offer. He tells us repeatedly that the world can offer us nothing of value (Matthew 16:26).
This failure in understanding is exactly what kept the "stiffnecked" Israelites wandering in the wilderness. They lusted after the things of Egypt and had assumed that being delivered by God would equate to receiving all the material riches of the Egyptians. Their constant complaint and expectation from God was to have the worldly things that the Egyptians had.
Let me be clear, it is God's good pleasure to bless us as HE sees fit, but a lifestyle of material riches and abundance is not a guarantee in God, nor is it the epitome of what God wants for us.
I Deserve to Live Richly
In conjunction with this false doctrine, we see the same over-extravagances in the Meyer's lifestyle as other so-called prosperity preachers. The level to which her ministry funnels money directly into her family's personal finances has been a point of contention with the government in recent years leading to specific court battles over their non-profit status. Information about these monies and the findings of investigations in this area can be found by searching the Internet.
I am NOT saying that ministers should be paupers or that they have no right to be compensated. But there is a point where the lifestyle can become so worldly that it contradicts the message of having a life laid down in service. At such a point, the "servant" becomes those financing this lifestyle via their donations rather than the minister himself being the life poured out as a "servant". When the work of the "ministry" (including the funds derived from and donated to it) becomes a funnel for personal gain, this is an issue of greed. ministrywatch.com/mw2.1/pdf/MWDA_060605_JoyceMeyer.pdf
Words are "power"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yypjWlsayHw
Another tenet of the word of faith movement is that you speak to life your own reality by the power of your words. However, God says that if our motives or requests do not line up with His will, our requests will not be granted (James 4:3). Does God just grant what we speak and claim or are we commanded to speak what He desires?
Jesus Taking Our Place in Hell
www.pinpointevangelism.com/FalseTeacher/Audio/JoyceMeyer-FranSankey.mp3
The Scriptures indicate that Jesus went to Hell to set the captive souls free, but there is no Scriptural support for believing that He was tortured by demons as some sort of substitute for the punishment of Hell owed to us. This experience - she says - qualifies Jesus as the "first born-again" child of God. Joyce also teaches this as a belief required for salvation. It is a deceptive teaching with no Scriptural basis promoted by those such as Hagin and Copeland.
We are "little gods"
www.pinpointevangelism.com/FalseTeacher/Audio/JoyceMeyerMix.mp3
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y4eVu2oxP8
This is a popular teaching in the Word of Faith movement that is perverted to imply that man (in his born again state) becomes the equivalent of God, able to speak forth his own reality.
Although Joyce claims not to be equating man with being "G"od, she essentially does just that with her teaching. She states that man becomes the "God-kind" in the new birth. She compares Jesus' statement about being the Son of God with us being made sons and daughters of God via the new birth. However, we are not begotten by God the way that Jesus is, making our very nature God's nature. We are born again by God's Spirit but we are made sons via adoption.
Evil Communications Corrupt Good Manners
A little leaven leavens the WHOLE lump. Yet, we see Joyce able to blend seamlessly with those who are espousing false doctrines and heresies in the Body of Christ. How can two walk together unless they be agreed?
The Mega Mess
Joyce Meyer participated in the 2004 Mega Mess (oops, I mean Mega Fest) which is one of the most worldly, compromising, perverted attempts at Christian convocation in many years. It is literally a parade of the flesh and she held positions in this fiasco along the sides of others such as Creflo Dollar, Paula White, Juanita Bynum, Bishop Eddie Long, and Bishop T. D. Jakes.
TBN
Frankly, I am personally predisposed to write-off anyone who continuously appears on TBN. It is not a vehicle for the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, but is a champion of the whore of Babylon. They only feature on TBN those who do not threaten their money-making machine. Examine the doctrine of those who TBN supports and ask yourself, "Why are they supporting Joyce? More importantly, why is Joyce affiliating herself with such organizations?"
UnScriptural "Spiritual" Manifestations
Holy Laughter
Again, here was have another Word of Faith, Copeland, Hagin perversion that has no Scriptural support. While I have not personally heard Joyce condoning holy laughter, an article about such is located here: www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/special/joycemeyer.nsf/story/F50ADCD5BDFEA78086256DE100245318?OpenDocument
Lastly, let me say, Joyce is folksy, personable, humorous, charismatic...she is a very likable person. Yet NONE of that has anything to do with whether what she is teaching is Scripturally sound. We are not to judge things after the flesh, but by the spirit. Are "good words" enough to sign-off on one as a minister of the Gospel? This is not about Joyce as a person; it is about what is being taught.
Again, there is some truth in what Joyce says, however she has really started straddling the fence in key areas as she delves more and more into the WoF community. She tries not to be identified by the Word of Faith deception, yet she parrots much of the phraseology, concepts, jargon, and doctrines they promote.