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Post by newstartnow on Aug 18, 2009 8:49:36 GMT -5
What does this mean? ************************
10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
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Post by LDM on Aug 19, 2009 19:12:01 GMT -5
The context of the chapter speaks of areas of liberty in Christ that some turn into matters of legalism. The Chapter is not speaking of not judging others in matters of doctrine of soundness in the faith, for we know that God commands us to discern what is true from what is false. There is an article on the blog that speak of this a little: thelatterdays.blogspot.com/2009/05/do-not-judge-part-5.htmlLook at the section called "We are not to judge others regarding legalistic adherence to ordinances".
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Post by newstartnow on Aug 19, 2009 20:03:36 GMT -5
Okay I read the post. It did raise some questions for me. ********************************************
We are not to judge others regarding legalistic adherence to ordinances
This includes items such as holyday (holiday) observances and what to eat or drink, for such are only matters of faith (Romans 14:1-23; I Corinthians 8:7-13; I Corinthians 10:28-33; Colossians 2:16-23).
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So, if I feel that Christmas and Easter should not be celebrated, I can not judge someone else who does celebrate it? How do we treat Halloween? If a Christian wants to celebrate that day, am I not to judge? ****************************************************
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Post by LDM on Aug 19, 2009 20:31:35 GMT -5
Well, I guess we should look at what it means to "judge". Are you determining that these people are wrong? That they are not Christians? That they are going to Hell? Coming from someone who used to celebrate those holidays, I can tell you that at the time, I never thought I was doing something wrong. I literally did these things as unto the Lord. Others may feel differently, but I feel that these are matters of faith between individuals and the Lord. My family does not celebrate those days - and we are always willing to share our reasons why with others who question it - but in the end, I believe it is a matter of faith. Separating from religious activity takes maturity and growth in Christ. The more we grow in Christ, the less we rely on religious performance/adherence to define our identity as Christians and the more He can open our eyes to the things in our lives that are not pleasing to Him. Now, I am speaking primarily of activities which have some sort of semblance of honoring God. For example, Easter has pagan roots, but it is supposed to be a celebration of Jesus' resurrection. Clearly, things like Halloween wouldn't fit that bill. It is a holiday steeped in lifting up that which is demonic and interacting with the dead, which is forbidden. So, I may not be clear on what you mean by you shouldn't judge them. You certainly should discern whether this is something you consider Godly or not and likewise be willing to share anything that God lays on your heart about the matter. But I don't think it is a question of salvation. The whole context to me seems to speak of giving people room to grow in the Lord. If someone stops adhering to those holidays just because you said it is sin, but they don't personally understand anything to be wrong, then that is sinful itself. Our goal is not to convince people to be like we are or even like we want them to be. Our goal is to direct each person to Jesus so that He can mold them into the creation He wants them to be. I am not sure that I am answering your question, but those are my thoughts.
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Post by LDM on Aug 19, 2009 20:40:34 GMT -5
OK, so one more thing. There is a difference between doing something in ignorance and doing something in defiance. God knows the difference.
There are things I may do in my life right now that is displeasing to God, but if I don't know...then I am ignorant. But as He takes me from faith to faith, He conforms me more into His image, moving away from the things that are not like Him.
Now, that is not to say that ignorance is an excuse with God. Clearly He says His people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge. Not being aware of something can open you or your household to things that are unclean. I don't mean to make light of these things.
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Post by newstartnow on Aug 19, 2009 20:59:34 GMT -5
I think I understand what you are saying. Personally, God has shown me that I shouldn't celebrate Christmas but if my sister hasn't received that revelation and believes she is honoring God it is not for me to judge her. It is up to God to show her. So if He shows her its wrong and she continues to celebrate then she is in sin and He will judge her for it. Is that what your are saying? But also ignorance isn't an excuse when we don't take time to study the Word and learn. So all I have a right to do is give her scriptures to say what is a sin and what isn't a sin. In doing that I'm not saying she isn't a Christian, I'm just saying what the Word says is a sin and isn't a sin. And she has to decide, according the Word and the Spirit leading her, that celebrating Christmas is wrong. ??
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Post by LDM on Aug 20, 2009 7:46:32 GMT -5
Yes, that is what I am saying.
You should certainly share with her (and any others) God's truths as He leads you. However, it is never just the word that contains life but the Spirit and revelation of God along with it. You can show someone Scripture in black and white and they will look at the same thing and just say, "Well, I don't see it like that."
We have to remember that Satan is able to blind people's minds. The best recourse for someone you believe is trapped in sin (whatever that sin may be) is to share the truth with them and pray for them. Battle in prayer against the demonic strongholds that may be blinding that person to the Gospel message. Intercede for them and ask God to give them understanding of His ways.
There are brothers and sisters in the Lord I know who have fought tooth and nail against Christmas being a pagan holiday...and I mean for YEARS. Yet, now many of them no longer celebrate that day. Again, let everyone be convinced in their own mind.
I can remember someone sharing that with me 13 years ago and I thought they were a nutcase. LOL ;D
I am not saying that people who celebrate Christmas are blind. I am saying I don't care one way or the other. For me (personally), it is a non-issue.
I strongly believe that as our hearts are purified before Him, all the outward stuff will take care of itself. As we seek His face in sincerity, He will complete the work that He has started in us. And yes, I agree with you that if we indeed are sincere, then we will turn from anything that is not pleasing to Him as He reveals it to us.
Consider the following:
"For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you." I Corinthians 9:19-23
Paul was able to flow like water in and out of various situations and cultures. The cultural differences/beliefs were not bondage to him because he didn't place faith in those things. He did all as unto the Lord.
Look also below:
"If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof: Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience? For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks? Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved." I Corinthians 10:27-33
"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." I Corinthians 6:12
I think that God frees us in stages, as we are able to bear it. For example, I came out of the Catholic church. And for some time, I was like "I will never step foot into a Catholic church again because I now know that it is filled with idolatry."
Yet, over time, God has taken me to a different level of liberty in Him. For example, I can go to my grandmother's funeral at a Catholic church, and not feel bound. The separation between the clean and unclean has taken place in my heart, so that the physical aspects of what is unclean is not the main concern.
In order for us to become all things to all men so that some may be saved, we must be sanctified in the inner man. Once that happens, the things on the outside do not defile us.
OK, so I have probably drifted a bit in this response. LOL But hopefully it helps a little.
God Bless you Newstart!
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Post by newstartnow on Aug 20, 2009 9:35:30 GMT -5
Thanks for being so patient with me LDM. I do understand and you have helped a great deal.
And for the record I don't think that people who celebrate Christmas are going to hell, I was using that as an example because I know that is a difficult holiday for people to let go of.
And I do understand that freedom you speak of. As wonderful as liberty in Christ is, isn't it odd how difficult it is for people accept it? Sadly I am not there yet. But I haven't given up.
Thanks again and God Bless you!
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Post by LDM on Aug 20, 2009 11:44:53 GMT -5
You know, that is just really true. Freedom can be scary.
Look at battered women who stay with their abusers. Look back to African slaves who opted to stay with on the plantation as share croppers once emancipation had been given. Even if you recognize your current situation as not being ideal, it can be hard taking that step into freedom.
Yet God is truly bringing us along the way. Liberation is not a destination, but a journey (in this life anyway). We become more free as we continue to walk with Him. Just keep walking. :-)
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