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Post by newstartnow on Jul 1, 2009 6:20:15 GMT -5
I know they are "christian" ?
Why do they not read the bible? and why do they feel that if they are just "good" then they are okay? I know that there are many false teachings in catholicism but don't they at least teach salvation through Christ?
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Post by LDM on Jul 1, 2009 8:49:16 GMT -5
I am not a Catholic, but I can share my perspectives. I actually don't consider the institution of the Catholic Church to be a Christian institution based on the extra-biblical doctrine it espouses.
The church teaches that it is the only one who can properly interpret Scripture. If one believes that they alone can interpret Scripture (or even if one just uses such a position to control the people), then one begins to set-up barriers between the people and God.
To support this view, much of the church's interactions with its people have historically - and I would say purposefully - been shrouded in mystery. At one point, the catholic church even had restrictions against parishioners having Bibles.
The Council of Constance Canon 14 states, "We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books."
Now, some Catholics will say that this was to prevent bad translations from being circulated amongst the people, but it is actually more than that. The following quote was given as recently as 135 years ago:
"The church [RCC] forbids that the Bible, literally translated into the vulgar tongue should be given to be read by all persons indifferently. She even forbids absolution of sins to be given to those who choose to read it, or retain possession of it without permission. The proof that it cannot be a good thing to put the Bible into the hands of all persons is, that being full of mysteries it would injure rather than profit the ignorant; and this is manifest from the zeal with which Protestants scatter abroad, everywhere and at great expense, an incredible number of vernacular translations of the Bible.” Dogmatic Catechism (Frassinetti), revised and edited by the Oblate Fathers of St Charles, London, 1874
So, with this belief, it makes sense for the congregants to put more emphasis on the church catechism versus the actual Scriptures.
Additionally, it isn't until recently that the church even conducted its own mass (church service) in languages that could be understood by the people. The mass would be in Latin, and most people could not even understand what was being said.
Even today, the RCC produces misselettes which contain snippets of Scripture references that will support each mass for the year. Instead of actually reading from the Bible, the people would simply read Bible excerpts contained in the misselette.
I know this was wordy, but I think there are numerous reasons why catholics may not set priority on "reading the Bible". The RCC teaches that God gave us their church for the purposes of man's salvation, not the Bible. So, knowing the Bible is not a critical component for salvation, rather following church teachings is.
I wouldn't say that Catholics feel that just being good is okay, but rather that it is expected. Yet, sin is something addressed through participation in the sacraments of the church. There is confession where one can confess sins to a priest and do penance to make up for that sin. There is the eucharist whereby the body and blood of Jesus is believed to be a perpetual, on-going sacrifice for sin. As long as one participates in these rites, one is believed to be covered.
Although the Scriptures indicate that all believers are saints, the RCC teaches that saints are those endowed with special abilities from God to live Godly. There is no expectation that a catholic will be able to live such lives, and I would say that the sacraments themselves perpetuate this understanding. This is why they "need" the church. If they are unable to be purified and sanctified from sin by God alone, then there has to be an intermediary who can do this on God's behalf.
They would say that they do teach salvation through Christ, but that "salvation" hinges upon following the dictates of the church. It winds up being a works-based salvation where it is your adherence to the dictates of the church rather than faith in Jesus' sacrifice that saves you. It is salvation through Christ, through the Pope, through the church, through the sacraments. In their minds, there is no direct link to Christ outside of the RCC.
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Post by gcprice on Jul 2, 2009 23:59:06 GMT -5
I recommend that you read the book "The Jesus Cult" available online at www.omegaministries.org. Get a copy and understand the endtime delusions we are facing. Forget religion, get to Jesus!!!
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Post by newstartnow on Jul 3, 2009 8:41:42 GMT -5
I recommend that you read the book "The Jesus Cult" available online at www.omegaministries.org. Get a copy and understand the endtime delusions we are facing. Forget religion, get to Jesus!!! Actually, I have the book at home with me now. I got it from the library. Not finished with it yet. Very eye opening.
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Post by frenchieelly777 on Aug 12, 2009 9:34:33 GMT -5
I grew up as a catholic (more or less LOL). But the real and true God was hidden somewhere in my heart and I never agreed with a lot of weird observances within this religion *Things like praying virgin (not anymore) Mary so that she would ask Jesus to answer my prayers : I always felt uncomfortable with that, I was like "Why can't ask Jesus directly ?" or *praying the dead people they call saints (Saint X for marriage, Saint Y to have children, saint Q to find a job, Saint Blabla to make sure my dead relatives rest quietly in the purgatory/heaven waiting room...), I am praiseful now because God never let me swallow these things . Indeed salvation really is a matter of works for Catholics since they are taught to do all the sacraments required in order to go to heaven, period. So many Christian practices are just eluded : fasting, giving the tithe...
Lord have mercy because the RCC is a great lie and so many souls are held hostage!
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Post by LDM on Aug 12, 2009 14:42:52 GMT -5
That is true, although I personally fell for RCC doctrine hook, line, and sinker. I just said to myself that if they were the one true church, then they must know what they are speaking of. However, just as in your life, the grace of God intervened. He revealed to me the hypocrisy to let me know that something was wrong. I believe that there are many others currently in RCC who God also has His hands on and He will bring them out as well. Those who search after righteousness verily shall be filled. I agree that much of what the RCC teaches is at odds with Scripture. While we no longer have to give a tithe, we do have to give our lives. And this not mot mere lip service or works, it is a life we lay down for God to use. Too many souls are held hostage, but the prayer of a righteous man avails much!
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Post by LDM on Mar 29, 2010 15:57:59 GMT -5
I have not read this all, but it contains interesting information about Biblical doctrine compared with doctrines of the RCC including mother goddess worship, purgatory, holy days, the rosary, etc. The Two Babylonswww.whitehorsemedia.com/docs/THE_TWO_BABYLONS.pdf
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Post by trayjay on Apr 16, 2010 13:00:56 GMT -5
Just to add my 2 cents, my experience with Catholics is that if you can get them to read the Bible, they come out of Catholicism. The ones I have encountered are sincere about their love for Christ, but are bound by the rule that they cannot read the Bible - it is only for the priest. Because of their respect for authority, they abide by that rule. What is sad is that their desire to "obey" keeps them in bondage instead of the experiencing the freedom they could have in Christ.
One lady I talked to a few years ago told me that a neighbor simply challenged her to read the Bible - stating that she could ask forgiveness in confession if God didn't show Himself to her and reveal to her that His Word was for her personally. She said she took the challenge with knees knocking. She said that after she read a few books in the New Testament, she realized the truth. She was ostracized by her family and friends that were Catholic, but she didn't care. She said she shares her experience with every catholic she comes in contact with.
Like LDM said, the prayers of the righteous avail much. Pray for them.
On another note, I'm trying to figure out how people convert to Catholicism from Biblical Christianity. That is happening more and more lately. We need to pray for them as well.
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Post by LDM on Apr 19, 2010 7:13:36 GMT -5
That's true Trayjay...or at least it was for me. The one HUGE obstacle to this is that the RCC teaches that it is not possible for the "laity" to understand Scripture by reading alone. ONLY the RCC can rightly divide the word.
As you mention, this instills fear into the heart people. As if just by attempting to read the Bible you are rebelling against God. My mother as a child would not even enter her Aunt's church but had to stand outside during service because it was not allowed for catholics to partake in non-catholic services.
There is much bondage in that organization for that is part of the witchcraft used to control the minds of the people. But God is able to break the power of that darkness and impart light.
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Post by LDM on Apr 26, 2010 19:33:57 GMT -5
Messages from Heaven is a documentary about Marian apparitions from what calls herself the "Queen of Heaven". You can watch it for free here: www.creationists.org/MessagesFromHeaven/english.htmlIt is interesting to note that scientific evidence indicates that apparitions ARE appearing. This is not simply a matter of people making these things up in all instances. Something supernatural IS occurring. The question is, are these from God and how can one tell? Pasted below is one person's commentary on this documentary, which I think sufficiently summarizes the video as it discuss the Mary one priest calls the " Commander and Chief" of God's army. ***** Messages From Heaven is a truly impressive, definitive, Biblical expose of the growing Marian Movement in the world today. It focuses a laser beam of truth on the apparitions of Mary reportedly taking place all over the world, using the apparition's own words to prove her deception. The video also explains why the worship of the Virgin Mary is a violation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Thus, some will condemn this video as anti-Catholic. It should not be seen in this manner, for it is not anti-Catholic, it is pro-Jesus and pro-Gospel. As a Southern Baptist, I have never understood the veneration of Mary in the Catholic Church. Mary was certainly a blessed woman who gave birth to the Messiah, but she was still a woman. Such concepts as the Immaculate Conception of Mary herself and her perpetual virginity do not come from the Bible. The makers of this video see real danger in the veneration of Mary being further inspired by her so-called apparitions, and they paint the movement as a Grand Deception leading many astray, including many Christians.
I had no idea that Marian apparitions are as widespread as they are in our time, nor was I aware of the extent of the growing Marian Movement afoot. This video starts out by chronicling some of these apparitions, and I felt early on as if this video were actually lending credence to these "miracles." Certainly, it does not dispute that such apparitions are actually taking place. It does dispute, however, the message and origin of these visions of Mary. It is important to note that this video bases its analysis only on those apparitions that have been accepted as authentic by the Catholic Church - with the exception of the recent apparitions at Medjugorje, which are also included.
What does Mary say in these apparitions? She says some amazing, troubling things. She claims to be the mediator and advocate for mankind. She claims she was sent here to save the world, in which she is ever-present. She says she is sinless, that she suffers and atones for sin today, that she was assumed bodily from Earth, that she will be the one to crush the Serpent. She wants people to build shrines to her, to venerate images of her, to put their faith in her (as opposed to Jesus). Thus, she claims a number of things that can only be said of God. Most disturbing of all, she claims to be the co-redemptrix alongside Jesus. As one expert says, such claims are much more than non-Biblical - they are in fact anti-Biblical. He and a number of other scholars bring out the Bible and refer to verse after verse to refute the claims of the Marian apparitions. The Mary of the Bible would never claim the things the apparitions claim, nor would God allow her to.
This video identifies the apparitions as the work of the Great Deceiver. Even Christians can be fooled by such deception, if they let their eyes drift away from Jesus. Satan does not have to destroy a man in order to alienate him from God; all he has to do is convince that man that Jesus alone is not the one and only source of salvation. The Marian apparitions are doing just that. The apparition betrays herself, according to these experts, when she refers to herself as the Queen of Heaven. If you look for this descriptive term in the Bible, you will find, in the book of Jeremiah, a pagan deity of this name whom God condemns. Messages From Heaven makes clear that the apparition's promises of peace and unity are a false peace, as the Bible foretells in its abundant warnings of deceivers in the End Times.
Messages From Heaven delivers a preponderance of evidence, straight out of the Bible, to prove that those worshiping Mary are the victims of an infernal deception orchestrated by the greatest deceiver of them all. This video takes the beliefs of the Marian Movement apart piece by piece, leaving it without a leg to stand on. This is an important, eye-opening video with an important message for all Christians.
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