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Post by lrtillis on Feb 16, 2010 13:03:40 GMT -5
About the Kingdom Now stuff...don't know much about that but as you mention that....I am realizing how easy it can be to get sucked into certain teachings that have an appearance of godliness. I just posted an article (another by Lonnie Lane) that talks about how Augustine widely misinterpreted the teachings of Jesus to make them into everything that Christ did not intend. I would like to point out these lines:
"he (Augustine) was always searching for deeper meaning, as if the meanings in Scripture aren't deep enough when understood through revelation by the Spirit. So he read the stories as a series of moral narratives in which the characters have deeper meaning, and by doing so he rejected the obvious meaning in the texts. He sought to discover deeper and multi-layered meanings that only the initiated could discern. His goal was to rise above the ordinary understanding of the material practicalities of life and to rise above to God, to the "ineffable presence in the minds of the wise men, when their spirits are souring above matter" (The City of God" 9.16)."
"Augustine removed the stories from their reality and in doing so, introduced absurd applications that distanced the parable from our gut response to it and therefore to God."
I sincerely believe that this is what is still going on now with all those Kingdom Now beliefs and the like and even in some of the "supernatural" things that people are said to have been operating in. We CANNOT take Scripture out of its context and think that it will provide a viable basis for s now. In studying the Scriptures many tend to forget that they were written expressly for the people of that time (we are still able to use them as a guide for our lives today) but in us attempting to make them "relative", we lose what was originally intended.
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Post by LDM on Feb 16, 2010 13:48:30 GMT -5
Well you know, it would be very hard for satan to deceive if he just came with out and out lies. He always uses some truth and just perverts it. If almost the elect themselves could be deceived...that has to be a strong delusion.
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Post by LDM on Feb 16, 2010 13:59:32 GMT -5
I don't know much about Sid Roth either. I used to get his newsletters like years and years ago, but I stopped after they seemed to be getting a bit strange. I guess you could call that some of the "supernatural"...visitations from angels, preoccupation with angels, etc. It was just enough to get me to unsubscribe. LOL Now, I believe in the supernatural definitely! But not all supernatural is of God, so I just let that pass. I can understand your whole comment, but this one statement, " ...even churches that claim to be free in the Lord only mean that under the guise and context of what they teach and minstry has become the thing that only happens within the four walls of said churches." That is SOOOO true!It can be a hard thing to come to terms with who the ekklesia really is versus what we have been taught to think. This I will say...whether you are in a church building, an informal fellowship, or alone at home...whether people understand you, disagree with you, or just think you are nuts... all that matters is that you as an individual have your mind renewed to serve the Lord. Then, no matter where you are or who you are with, you will be at peace in Him. Just keep seeking the Lord for yourself and all else will work out just as He plans.
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Post by lrtillis on Feb 16, 2010 14:21:38 GMT -5
Amen....just as HE plans.
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Post by newstartnow on Feb 17, 2010 8:02:37 GMT -5
Well said LDM
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Post by estes on Feb 22, 2010 12:24:03 GMT -5
I throughly enjoy the church that I attend now. It is a small ministry that I will say provokes me to love and good works but I have come to understand that the church is not our path to God (as some may believe) but Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father. I think we are all on one accord here but, I wanted to share this with you straight from GOD's word. Act 4:10 " let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.Act 4:11 " This is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.'[fn1] Act 4:12 " Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." And that is a reason why I have problems with Quotes like this: (I came across this post in reply to an article I was reading) the guy stated... IT'S EASY TO BE SAVED! WANT TO KNOW FOR SURE?
If you really want to be saved and go to heaven, all you need to do is pray this: Jesus, I want to know that you are real. Come in to my heart. Forgive me. I believe that You died for me and rose again for me. I believe You are alive now in my heart. Thank You! There is so much stuff wrong with comments like this and so many people are lead astray by these comments. People cannot live on, and, be saved on this prayer alone. It goes far beyond a prayer... LDM mentioned in another post I don't remember which one (if you remember LDM help me out here lol) but LDM said "If a prayer were the only thing to salvation the Bible would be so much shorter" those are not the exact words but I'm pretty sure it went something like that. Nevermind, I found it... here is what LDM said in the " Zyxter Church?" post: PROMOTION OF A FALSE SALVATIONThey mistakenly promote a version of the "sinner's prayer" as being the way to be saved. Must we repent and turn in faith to Jesus to be saved? Absolutely! But repentance and faith are live-long bonds of our covenant relationship with Jesus, not some instant superglue that grants us eternal life. "If you’ve prayed this prayer of salvation with true conviction and heart, you are now a follower of Jesus. This is a fact, whether or not you feel any different...The Bible tells us that your eternal salvation is secure!"Huh? What about being born again? What about having Godly spiritual fruit demonstrated in their life? What about being transformed into the image of Jesus Christ? Salvation is not about simply reciting a prayer. It is about entering a covenant of faith with God the Father through Jesus Christ where you no longer live for yourself, but for Him. JUST THINK of how much shorter the Bible could have been if ALL we had to do was say a prayer. When looking to see who the brothers and sisters are in Christ, why does Jesus tell us to look for fruit? Why doesn't He just tell us to ask them if they had said the prayer? It is because this is not a true presentation of salvation. ****** I declare lol some people just.... lol We all as Christians and children of GOD need to do better. I thank GOD for the people who are good educators of HIS word.
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Post by hewhoovercomes on Feb 24, 2010 12:50:24 GMT -5
The irony is that they are half right:
it is INEVITABLE that those born again in Christ, will do the works of Christ, and will overcome all evil, disobedience, sin and unrighteousness in their lives.
In my obviously limited experience, this takes place over a period of time, large or small, which requires much repentance in continued fighting in the Spirit and through practical measures to overcome sin through Christ.
HOWEVER, just because in may take place over time often times, it CERTAINLY DOES NOT MEAN that Christ cannot deliver an individual from all sin instantaneously.
I see no scriptural evidence for saying deliverance is ALWAYS A PROCESS, AND NEVER INSTANTANEOUS. The scriptures point more towards deliverance through process, to be sure, just by sheer volume, but no where does the Lord indicate he will never deliver someone instantly. From what we see in the Scriptures, Paul is a good example: a persecuter and hunter of those in Christ, to the point of murder, but there is no evidence after his salvation of Christ that he ever struggles with returning to murdering.
As for the healings/deliverances in the Gospels, though these individuals were instantly freed, it is very fitting to believe the actual process of deliverance when back much farther the moment of freedom/delivery from Christ: hence because of what those said individuals lacked-sight, walking ability, life for Lazarus, etc, they were able to become richer in faith of the Lord than those around them, as they needed that faith to compensate, because they knew they were heavily lacking in another area. The irony of course is that ALL MEN WERE LACKING, but only those poor in the world had the eyes from the Lord to see it: hence when Yeshua said, "The well have no need of a physician, but the sick," (Mark 2:17) He is clearly saying that all men are sick, but only some come acknowledge their sickness and come to Him, the Great Physician. Put simply, to be poor in the world means better equipped to be rich in Christ. This is what Paul meant when he spoke of "the foolishness of the world confounding the wise." (1 Corinthians 1:27)
I understand why a church would take such a stance in the Apostate west, where there are no real relationships, and no accountability, and so there are more worldly folk in the church than Christians, and bringing up the rear for the greatest minority is true believers in Christ, hearers and doers of the Word. Again, such a church thinks such a stance would keep worldly folk out, but what it would actually do is allow them to take over: in short order, you'd have church members paying for "indulgences" to cover their sins a la the Catholic Church in the dark ages.
This is a case in point why man CANNOT deliver himself through his reasoning: it will ALWAYS lead him to the very destruction he tried to escape. Rather, put you faith in Christ, that you might be set free indeed (John 8:36).
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